Villain is on a fairly flat piece of land and is out and back, you could plop it down almost anywhere, do the track work from scratch and have a brand new coaster. I would imagine a steel structure is much easier than moving an old wooden one. Villain is actually a good candidate for the beach front woodie everyone wants.
*** This post was edited by eightdotthree 3/24/2008 11:35:40 AM ***

It might not be 'environmentally sound', but I can definitely say from experience that boards that have been pressure treated will torch just fine.

My guess is that the ONLY coaster that might have a chance at not ending up as scrap is the Big Dipper, and that is because of the historical value of it. I'll even go as far as saying that even that chance is remote.

Expect a mighty big bonfire at the waterpark some night this summer.

Raging Wolf Bobs has a number of problems, including a bad reputation and a recent accident. It's potentially a decent ride, and it would be a good addition especially for a smaller park that is lacking a good wood coaster and could put it up for a fraction of the cost of a new ride. But that ride has an awful lot of baggage to overcome, not to mention the lack of an operating train (doesn't Cedar Fair have the original PTC trailers floating around somewhere?)

Big Dipper is an okay ride, but quite frankly if I had a choice between saving it or the Screechin' Eagle down at LeSourdsville Lake, I'd rather have the Eagle.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Did I like the ride when I first rode it in 2000? Yes I did, but I still remember a nasty bump right before the station on one of my two rides. I hit my thighs pretty hard into the unforgiving metal lapbar.

We only had one fan of Big Dipper. For the three others of us, it was one and done. The out section was miserable, while the return section was awesome. With some retracking, I think it could be awesome for decades to come.

We visited shortly after Raging Wolf Bobs had the accident, so I can't give any feedback on that.

Now that I think about it, I'm actually really surprised someone hasn't snatched that ride up.

The RWB, my favorite, does have a bad rep, but it is a great mid-sized coaster, It ran strong well into the last 90's. From 1988-to then, it was worth every penny. When dismantling woodies, you lose the track and up to 1/4 of the wood.

I am very suprised the Villian wasn't moved. But, on the other hand, with labor and freight costs, its not a whole lot cheaper to just order a new ride.

The Double Loop, another great coaster for the masses, has welded track, and needs someone who can handle a plasma torch properly to dismantle the ride, then do the same tlc when re-assembled.

The 'call the ball' today, the Villian will be sold, and the flume, and the giant wheel. I only saw that video link last week, so I don't what is all remaining.

The RWB, DL, and Dipper will all have the same fate, unless someone comes forth with at least $250,000-$750,000 in funds to buy, dismantle, transport, and re-build. Thats a low-end figure for a major rides like the RWB or Villian.

That's also assuming you can do everything 100% inhouse. I did a proposal on the MB Hurricane, and with a good construction crew in house, the cost was at least $1.5 million. At least. And they sold the trains. Add another $50,000-$250,000.

And, as an added punch, most states are leery of allowing 'outside' certified rides to enter their state, especially with a history of engineering or litigation issues.

Then, you have the added costs of new trains, new braking, and whatever else the State may suprise you with. Its really a toos up to move a major rides nowadays. Which is a shame, since the Dipper, DL, and RWB are all good rides, and have served Geauga Lake well.

ChuckBetter yet, Add a block and tear down Racer and put it at KI!*** This post was edited by Charles Nungester 3/24/2008 7:43:39 PM ***

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You'd think that if anybody was interested in preserving them they would've put out an offer by now, but it's apparent that's not the case.

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Actually, if I were interested in buying any of them, I'd wait for the auction. Why pay what they were asking if you can low-ball a bid and be pretty certain that no one's going to counter offer?

*** This post was edited by kpjb 3/24/2008 10:26:13 PM ***

Agent Johnson brings up some interesting points about the engineering, and again that gives fairly major advantages to Villain and Wolf Bobs, mostly to Villain, just because of the documentation that ought to be available. I guess to put any of those rides up, someone has to stand behind the engineering. But getting a PE to sign off on the ride ought to be the easy part.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Adding new trains with lap bars, tunnels, and other items, and you have a great ride with a 42' height requirement.

But, the welding, in leiu of bolting, was the way to go then, and the track has lasted. Good then...bad now.

Big Dipper is a good ride, just not a mjaor draw for a major amusement park. RWB was and still is a terrible ride. That should turn into a bonfire very quickly. If CF does not sell all of the coasters, or they do not get auctioned off, BD and Villain may show up at other Cf parks in the near future. Villain could easily go along the beach at CP over by WT.

Basically CF doesn't care by now who buys the rides and where they go. Would it be utopia to see them all at other parks? Yes. Will it happen? No.

Coasters of today have to appeal to the masses, and somewhere that was forgotten with certain fans. Anyway, the RWB, with a pretty whacky marketing campaign in Pittsburgh show a wolf in the mountain snow did peak interest, and gave the revenue needed for the next project at Darien Lake, the Predator.

Also, the RWB, in additon to being a link to a greater bygone era, allowed GL to begin the rebuilding of the long overdue Dipper. If for some reason the Dipper was delayed into the operating season due to re-construction delays, the RWB was available to woodie fans.

It was a good, fast, smooth ride when it was running at top form. No one can take that away. And, it didn't intimidate riders who were just tall enough to ride. Its the same reason the Blue Streak at Cedar Point is so popular against the Mean Streak. Its just plain fun.

Dinn did a bang up job. I will miss the Raging Wolf Bobs. Glad to have rode it in 2004. I always thought it would be around for many years to come.

I assume the other main problem with DL is the fact that it wouldn't make much of an impact at a park unless it was in the middle of nowhere (as Libertyland's Revolution will probably end up being a good addition to DelGrosso's.) DL is actually one of my favorite Arrow coasters because it's smooth and fun. I'd take that thing over any of their mega-loopers from the 80's/90's.

It's much better then the standard Arrow corkscrew.

I'd liken it to a Pirate ship. They're old and everyone's gone on a flat that's more interesting and exciting, but they're still solid, fun rides.

Twistercoasterman, CF may be the ones to close the park, but do you honestly think Six Flags was going to continue to run the park for a loss?

The Senator who wrote Dick K. a letter requesting the Big Dipper to be saved should help secure State or Federal assests for historic preservation to use for bidding on the Dipper which in turn should be donated to Aurora under contingency of operation and preservation.

Once they've secured ownership of the rides, Aurora can use emminent domain to redevelop the blighted property, which contains their newly purchased assets, into a new amusement park. All they need to do is declare the remaining eyesore (shuttered gate area of the real Geuga Lake park) as a redevelopment zone - it's perfectly legal and used as a tool by municipalities throughout the nation to stimulate economic development.

All three coasters and the park were fantastic - the only problem with the place was the last owner bought it to drive it into the ground to eliminate competition for it's more expensive nearby property.

CF has paid the taxes, paid the help, and paid the bills. No way there to step in for current fiscal business.The rides are 'operational', and ready to go. No condeming can happen. The entire property is maintained. There is no blight. The only real guilt that CF has done is eliminating jobs, which will be equated by new housing. Construction jobs are better than ride ops. On paper.

Aurora, if not Solon, may or may not have had an agreement with Six Flags to do this or that when they agreed to move the road, but that would have been swept under the rug by now. Back to Aurora. They could have offered tax incentives, as the townships could have down, to at least show they wanted kids working, and local vendors to have business. None of that matters to CF.

What will happen is this: Come next summer, from the Streetsboro exit off the turnpike to Rt43 to Portage Road or where ever the Sea World parking lot is, there will be lots of less traffic. Everyone will feel it, from Perkins to Bob Evans to Holiday Inn to Bang Bang Fireworks. Once the tourism boards realize most of the group business went to Waldameer, Kennywood, and Conneaut Lake Park, which has some intersted parties doing the math as you read this, they will realize they got the screw.

Prepare for the knee-jerk reaction, which will include a hefty increase of the amusement tax on waterpark admission to 'Wildwater Kingdom', since the name Geauga Lake will be dropped for 2009. By 2011 or 2012, wave goodbye. All started by Busch, then on and on.

Once nice Aurora, with plenty of jobs for the neighborhood kids, could in theory look like the Euclid Beach area. Ugh.*** This post was edited by Agent Johnson 3/28/2008 8:53:42 PM ***
*** This post was edited by Agent Johnson 3/28/2008 8:55:09 PM ***

If they are concerned about the drop in tourism and loss of their beloved 120-year old local park, they should be coniving this strategy already. The key is to having enough funds to outbid others on the coasters, but I think only the Villian will be bid competatively - chances are slim anyone will bid on the other two woodies during a recession, except for maybe the mechanical parts. No one has come forward to purchase the Villian yet because they know a bargain auction was going to be the next logical step and they can get it for 1/3 the asking price - look how cheap the stuff at Wyandott Lake went for. Once they own the coasters they will likely be given a decent amount of time to claim it from the property, so they'll have a little more time to get the property taken over. All they need to do from there is find someone to completely manage the place or call West Chester County to gets some tips on running an amusment park with coasters. They'll have plenty of seasonal jobs back and can focus on turning the park back into a great local traditional park (and competing with GLWW Kingdom to boot!)

While jobs are lost to be replaced by housing, development would go on. There is nothing bad here. Its a business decision. Yes, its a decision that is hurting a lot of emotions, including mine. But, as an industry person, this is what happens.

CF is not going to allow that to happen without a fight, and I would think it is too late for anyone to do that. Entire Crawford County is spinning now on what to do to Conneaut Lake Park, an entire county. For GL to be saved, you would need the State of Ohio to show up Monday and purchase the entire property. Thats about it. CF even oews the name, so what would you call the park?

As for West Chester County, that system works for some summers, and some that don't. They haven't made solid profits since Marriot left decades ago. Every winter, they need to get more money for the county to 'buy out' leases to take ownership of attractions to add to the bottom line, which, to this day, has been unattainable.

I just think that all of this has happened way to fast for Ohio to put the brakes on. Cedar Point's sound business and operating strategies have allowed them to grow, and in the process, they have ko'd about a dozen other parks, who were not as sound. Its just business. Park owners do not want other parks around. Its sad, but true.

Its all very sad, including my lost memories, but I still love the business and my co-workers. I don't have to agree to what all the owners want, but I don't have the bucks to buy all those rides and move them myself.

Once a municipality uses eminant domain to obtain a property, they only need to pay fair assessed value, not market value, so it has nothing to do with having every right to get top dollar - based on the corporate greed involved here and the way they did not give people a warning to come visit one last time, I couldn't disagree more - they do NOT deserve to get top dollar for the land anyway since they bought it with the intention of closing the ride park all along. It's a nice way for Aurora to stick it back to Cedar Fair for the way that company misused and mismanaged the property.

Since U.S. Senator Brown from Ohio has already taken the effort to address his concerns in writing over the potential loss of the Big Dipper, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the State taking the property using historic preservation funding, he may even be able to secure a federal grant for some of the funds if a case could be made that the Dipper has national significance.

The intent of Playand was never to turn a major profit. I was created in Rye as a diversion for the benefit of the residents of West Chester County. It's still a great and affordable place for a family to spend a day - if they wanted to make a large profit, they could easily double the price of everything there (except parking) and it would be comparible to prices at the larger chains, however that would be defeating the purpose of why it was built in the first place.

Cedar Fair is no longer a company that recognizes and respects it's own roots within the amusement industry - it has become everything that went wrong with Six Flags during it's acquisition and greed frenzy. The CF from twenty years ago would never have the audacity to close Geauga Lake permanently. I once had great respect for the company and their business strategies, but that is long gone since the Dorney takeover. Even a big company like Disney has better ethics - it's time for a change in leadership at CF. I went there this summer for the first time in a while and was appalled at how much worse the customer service has become at the place, including the hotels - and I never thought it was that good in the first place! They should be glad their even getting flat attendance figures based on the way they treat their guests.

You pretty much summed it up - it's sad.*** This post was edited by Rye.D.Ziner 3/29/2008 11:28:54 AM ****** This post was edited by Rye.D.Ziner 3/29/2008 11:33:15 AM ***

What is all this crap about corporate greed? Shutting down a failing business isn't greed. What universe are you guys living in? All of this nonsense about their roots in the amusement industry... what does that even mean? That somehow amusement businesses aren't obligated to be profitable and accountable to their investors?

And by the way, Aurora doesn't care what happens here, because the part that closed is not in Aurora. Furthermore, if that community really cared, they would've been visiting the park.

All of these hurt feelings, and chalking them up to distaste for capitalism, are at odds with the financial reality that these are in fact businesses.

Of course a business will fail if you rape the attractions out of the park. All this nonsense about 'we don't do animals' during the CF purchase was a ploy to relocate the waterpark and eventually close the ride park. What was that tiger show doing at CP all those years along with the Oceana stadium? Obviously they 'did' animals at some point, and they could have just rehired the professionals who had previously been taking care of the animals all those years. Removing the animals was an intended fatal flaw and they pillaged the area into a stark and cookie-cutter waterpark, then pillaged the great waterpark on the ride side into an abandoned eyesore.

Regardless of whether the ride side was taxed by Aurora, I'm sure they care about the potential loss of tourist dollars on the businesses in their limits - if not, they will care soon when some of the area businesses close and leave behind abandoned sites. I'm sure many locals still visited the park, however the population of the area represents a drop in the bucket for their larger market of Cleveland, Youngstown, and Akron/Canton, so it's not even relevant.

It's not about distaste for capiltalism - the bottom line is that there should be antitrust laws in place to prevent transactions such as Busch buying B&B, and CF from buying GL - capitalism in it's best form should create competition, not the opposite. GL could easily have 'prospered' under a different owner who recognized the need for a less expensive alternative to CP in that economically challenged area of NE OH. If CF was prevented from purchasing GL in the first place under such needed antitrust laws, it would have likely remained open for another hundred years or more. Even the last ticket price of twenty-something bucks was way too expensive for that market - a wristband POP ride option is the best way for a successful park in that area. That's why Busch couldn't profit enough up there to justify continuing their presence, because you can't do that option in a park with so few rides, and the more they increase their gate prices the fewer numbers came.*** This post was edited by 3/30/2008 4:29:58 PM ***

And that he expected that a large number of former Geauga Lake customers would go to Cedar Point instead. And that the local water park fans (who primarily wouldn't be going to Soak City anyway) would still remain customers, with a substantially reduced park overhead. A financially winning proposition, to be sure.

To me it doesn't sound like he closed the ride side to make less money, but to make more.

The whole sinister scheme I'm sure seems like a great kill for CF shareholders, however in the grand scheme of things, totally worthless in terms of bringing more gate attendance figures to CP, and in the process cuts the throat of a great piece of amusement park history in Ohio and means a lot less jobs and tourism for the GL area. Overall a dispicable action - I wouldn't be suprised if they clubbed all the seals before shipping them off the Sea World side of the property! Watch in amazement as attendence figures in CP remain flat as gas prices surge and Northeast Ohio residents head to cheaper options like Columbus Zoo, Kennywood/Sandcastle, and Waldameer! The minor surge in CP attendence numbers they are expecting from the GL fallout will not likely transpire, and instead of maintaining those profits from the ride side of GL, their competitors will now see the lions share of those dollars. I'm sure the waterpark left at GL will still have decent attendance numbers, but like CF already acknowledged, people don't carry their wallets on waterslides.*** This post was edited by 3/31/2008 1:50:09 AM ***

I think six flags handled the park better than CF due to the animal side,the water park ,& rides. Cf took thngs out and destroyed the park NOT Six Flags. Six Flags Added rides and attractions,so cedar fair was mean't to close the park and not save it like six flags did.

that's my opinion.