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And here I thought we'd have nothing to talk about on the podcast this week. I would've loved to have been a fly on the wall at those family meetings.
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This is great! I was just thinking to myself the other day, "What the amusement park industry needs right now is more upheaval!" Wish granted. *Sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm* I really don't want to jump to judgment on this, but any time a relatively little known entity (to most U.S. enthusiasts, at any rate) takes over a park or parks, it makes me very, very nervous. And I'm not dissing the business decisions involved in this. I'm sure it made a lot of sense financially. The thing I liked about having the family oversee park development and operations is that they had a steady, slow hand. Slow to invest, but careful and spot on when they did. Now, who knows? Will Parques Reunidos have the same patience and deliberation in these parks? They did just enter the American market this year, so they have a learning curve ahead of them. Running a park in the U.S. is not the same as in Europe. There are different psychologies, different expectations, hell, different buying habits involved. My concern is that we will see the kind of thoughtless, rapid buildup that Six Flags did to the likes of Geauga Lake. Then, when revenues flatten or go south, perhaps pull the plug or flip the parks to a developer. I hope PR is a steady, sturdy guardian for these jewels among American parks.
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No need to apologize for being pessimistic. Kennywood has been a model of satbility for the past century so it's only natural to worry when something like this happens. Let's hope it's "business as usual".
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I shudder to think what will become of the likes of the Kangaroo, Noah's Ark, Turtle, etc. Unless the new management is truely 100% on the same wavelength as the current operators, I could unfortunately see them being slowly replaced by off the shelf flats.
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The park has not been a "model of satbility for the past century." It struggled through the depression like any other entertainment business.
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So are you saying that relative to most other parks, Kennywood hasn't been all that stable over the last 100+ years?
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So you're going to blame the park's performance during the country's most significant economic downturn on the ownership? That's beyond idiotic. When it comes to matters not completely beyond the park's control, the ownership of Kennywood was more stable than that of any other amusement park that has existed since the late 1800s. The fact that the amusement park has survived that long is alone testament to stable ownership. Compare Geauga Lake to Kennywood.
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I'm not blaming or asserting anything, I'm just saying that you were incorrect.
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Incorrect with what? My spelling of the word stability? Got me on that one. But as far as what I meant, I'm far from being wrong. I fail to see how a park's ownership can be blamed for the results of an economic disaster that was way beyond anyone's control. If anything, the park's (now-former) ownership deserves accolades for surviving the Depression when hundreds- if not thousands- of amusement parks were lost. How is that a big picture impossible to see? *** This post was edited by Rob Ascough 12/11/2007 2:49:33 PM ***
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I hope the families knew what they were doing. Seeing another American park, especially one with Kennywood's history, sold to a foreign company doesn't look good.
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Well, I'm not so sure about that. Personally I'd love to see Coney Island land sold to the Tivoli people, as was mentioned a few months ago. Maybe this will turn out to be a good thing, especially if there is little management turnover. Still, the potential downside is worth considering.
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So then if you wanted to be correct, perhaps you should have said, "A model of satbility for the past century if you don't count the times they struggled through due to the depression."
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I noticed the press release mentioned that the two families involved have over 100 members all over the country. Seems like it would be hard for everyone to stay on the same page. I wonder if there was any infighting behind this? Two families? All over the place? It's amazing they were able to cooperate as long as they have. You'd think one family would have bought out the other at some point. *** This post was edited by janfrederick 12/11/2007 4:59:07 PM ***
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^^ We're just splitting hairs, so I give up. ^ I always wondered if there was infighting. That seems to happen a lot with partnerships as new generations take over for older generations. What's really odd is that Kennywood just bought Story Land- a small acquisition that probably did little to elevate the sale price of the company (meaning the company probably saw it as a good investment). Maybe this is something that happened very quickly?
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While the number of family members has been played down in the media, I've heard that this was one of the primary reasons for selling the company. Evidently the structure of the organization means that all of those family members get input into how the business is run, which certainly would be a challenge with more than a hundred people thousands of miles apart. I don't understand why a couple of family members didn't buy out the company from the rest rather than sell everything, but that's what happened.
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Let's say there are a dozen family members owning the company and the company is worth $150 million (I have no idea if any of those figures are remotely correct but it doesn't matter.) That means each member owns $12.5 million of Kennywood. If two people want to own Kennywood, that means they have to come up with $125 million to buy the others out. Despite the company's success, that's a large loan for anyone to float the members interested in remaining in the business.
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I am really shocked. I wouldn’t have predicted the families would let go of the business short of facing financial downward spiraling, which unless I’m missing something wasn’t the case. I am particularly surprised about letting go of Kennywood given the long term history. KE has managed to do magnificent things with limited space and resources for that park and really has remained competitive despite adversity. The Pittsburgh area is one that is rich with tradition, and family, school, work, and ethnic picnic days at Kennywood are no exception. Many folks in the area are attached to long-standing history. And anyone with access to WQED, the local PBS station, has probably seen or heard of Kennywood Memories. I wonder what, if anything, this will do for local attendance. The good news is that with Kennywood being a National Historic Landmark, I believe there are limitations to what can be changed there and still maintain that status. I hope that is something the new owners intend to preserve.*** This post was edited by Carrie M. 12/11/2007 3:54:44 PM ***
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I'm not done splitting hairs. My knowledge about amusement park history is far from encyclopedic, but from what I do know, I'd venture that Kennywood has been one of, if not perhaps *the* most, stable parks in the U.S. Until this transaction, its had remained in the same family for generations, while preserving an amazing number of historic rides, including some of the oldest wooden coasters around. Sure sounds stable to me.
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I guess our statements should read, "Model of stability, outside large-scale, countrywide, history-altering factors beyond ownership and management control notwithstanding." 
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with Kennywood being a National Historic Landmark, I believe there are limitations to what can be changed there and still maintain that status.
You're assuming that some Spanish company gives a crap about an American historic designation.
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^^Or to put it more simply, MoSOLSCHAFBO&MGN.
*** This post was edited by Ensign Smith 12/11/2007 4:15:45 PM ***
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I think it's a little too early to assume they don't care, only because people in Europe seem to have a greater respect for history than people in this country. Go to most European countries and you'll see exquisite preservation of architecture that is centuries old, yet here in America we'll tear down a building that housed soldiers in the Revolutionary War to make way for a Wachovia branch. Still, I don't think any pessimism is completely unfounded.
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You're assuming that some Spanish company gives a crap about an American historic designation.
Well, it's not so much that I assume they care or they don't about the designation, I just assume they care about what their customers care about. If they let things like that historic designation get revoked, it could adversely impact business.
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That's why it's going to be important for people to make that clear to the new owners... and for the new owners to listen.
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people in Europe seem to have a greater respect for history than people in this country
Yeah, but stuff that's "only" 100 years old in Europe is hardly considered historic. I'm not saying they won't care about the designation, I'm just saying that it certainly won't be their primary concern.
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I'm not scared about what Parque Reunidos would do to those parks. In Europe, its been explained to me that they're more of a group of parks owned by the same owner and each park is left to manage itself, sometime with amazing budgets. For example, they bought Mirabilandia (from Phantasialand) in Italy. Its the park with Katun, the huge, themed B&M Inverted. The park was lacking in dark rides, so Parque Reunidos gave them the budget to build a western themed one with a live actor it is. It must have been good for them, cause they're building a second one now, with a 10 million euros budget!
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The new owners will care about the designation only if it is good for business, just as the previous owners did. Anyone who runs a business is doing so to make money. The previous owners found a nice balance between doing making money and maintaining the traditional atmosphere of the park. In my opinion, the new owners would be foolish to totally abandon this approach (and I doubt they will) since it has been shown to be fairly effective. Pittsburgh, by it's nature, isn't the greatest market for an amusement park, but Kennywood has continued to do well through good times and bad. I am optimistic that this change in ownership will bring mostly good things... new rides, additional tourism for the city, etc. But I do expect that some sacrifices will be made, and I am comfortable with that. You can read the (ignorant) opinions of some of my fellow Pittsburghers here:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07345/840808-42.stm
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The good thing is that KW will most likely have the capital sources to build those new coasters that have been suggested for the park. With GL gone, there is nore opportunity to draw business from Ohio, particularly from those who are looking for something other than a Cedar Fair park. Here's the things I don't want to see changed; The classic rides (Noah's Ark, Auto Race, Turtle, Kangaroo, Whip, Old Mill/Garfield's Nightmare (except for future retheming). I do believe Jack Rabbit and the Carousel are safe but I could see a rebuilding of the Racer into a bigger ride that retains the mobius configuration.and which makes 4 train operation possible. The Log Jammer (one of the best flumes around) with its rollercoaster-like design. The picnic shelters and permissive outside food policy The reasonably priced food, beverages and games The landscaping I could see the end to free parking in the foreseeable future (except for KG, HW, and SDC, do any other major parks have this?). Note that both Sandcastle and LC charge for parking. As for the other parks, Idlewild should be developed into a park that combines elements of KG and HW. The park could use a mid sized wooden coaster and maybe a Christmas/Santa theme area. LC should continue steady ghowth including more unique rides that make use of the mountain. Overall, KW should continue steady but controlled growth to exand its drawing power in other regions (Ohio Central PA etc.). Here is my suggested additions over the next few years: A state of the art wooden coaster similar to Voyage and using the terrain. A multilooping coaster (with GL gone there are currently none between CP and HP) An interactive dark ride. A gondola Ferris Wheel (KW used to have one) Another state of the art thriling flat ride (like Swing Shot or Chosmic Chaos) A couple of additional family flats. A family coaster (36" min. height) with ample thrills. More shows (Including some that appeal to seniors -- then they won't have to give away the gate to the older patrons anymore). *** This post was edited by Arthur Bahl 12/11/2007 6:03:47 PM ***
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Uh, Kennywood is getting an interactive dark ride. This is old news as of yesterday.
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Kennywood is one of my favorite remaining parks because it remains "untainted"..... as far as landscaping, preservation, hours (they don't slam the gates shut at 10) , food.... I don't like the sound of this one bit. How soon we forget places like Geauga Lake when the numbers don't meet what the corporation wants....... They had better not mess with my square dip cone with the nuts and cherry.. @#$%&@ !!!!!!
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Short of Holiday World selling out, I can't think of a more tragic announcement. To me the company of Kennywood is more than a few anmusement parks. It has been a protector of traditional amusements as long as the roller coaster has been around. When a company like this goes down the question becomes, who will pick up the torch? Or is it true that anything is for sale now-a-days? Except for the few coasters classified as national monuments.*** This post was edited by rc-madness 12/11/2007 10:56:54 PM ***
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I really fear that the numbers game will eventually prevail (probably within 5 years) and the "promises" will fade.... One thing KW has going for it is Sandcastle is a separate, unconnected (physically/geographically, I mean) entity... so we don't have to worry about the water rides swallowing up the park. However, I see down the road the corporate greed to compete with the likes of Cedar Fair, and classic flats like the Turtle will meet the scrapper's torch to be replaced by the latest mega ride or gadgetry. 
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Two things. If they do phase out the classic rides, I REALLY hope other parks buy the rides. Would love some of those classics here at KI. Does this mean the hotel and other expansion plans are now done for?
*** This post was edited by CoasterDaddy 12/12/2007 6:50:49 AM ***
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I wonder if foreign park enthusiasts have this conversation when an American company buys a foreign park. Say, Six Flags or Universal for instance. Do you think the folks in Toronto were going crazy because the Americans were taking over Canada's Wonderland? Did a PR person say something like, "We aren't concerned about turning this into a Krispy Kreme stand"? Geez.
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Of course not. We want to play in everyone else's sandbox, but don't want anyone to play in ours.
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^^best quote in this thread. I wonder how many people on this board realize that half the US is foreign owned?
*** This post was edited by El Gato Coastro 12/12/2007 11:57:08 AM ***
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Actually, only about 5% of American assets are foreign owned. Quite reasonable, and far less than in many countries.
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You can't look at that without looking at our debt, which at $8 trillion is more than any other country, and it's 27.5% owned by other countries (2006). Then consider that our debt is 66% of our GDP. If we don't get our crap together, we're going to be in a world of pain.
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Or a world of "Spain"...or Taco Stands for that matter.
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^^ That's part of the problem, but not all of it. A big issue is getting other countries to take our products like we take theirs. We want Hondas but the Japanese don't want Chevys... Americans like the Nintendo Wii but the Japenese wouldn't take an Xbox 360 if we paid them to take it.
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If the value of the dollar continues to fall, then our products become bargains. Anyway, a lot of products that we think are foreign, are actually produced here. A lot of things we consider American products are manufactured elsewhere. The only products you can really trust are made by Junior Achievement.
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Does this company own any other theme/ amusement parks?
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Rob...our workers must build better cars and games. If Americans don't want to buy American...why blame the Japanese? I have only ever owned American-labeled cars but let's be realistic...most of the Ford's and Chevy's I've owned have been loaded with foreign built components.
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I disagree. I don't think our workers build cars worse than any other workers. I think our companies design cars that don't last as long. Or at least they have in the past. On that note, I STILL would never buy a Hyundai even though they supposedly build more reliable cars. But having a car with 170K miles that still runs like a clock, and having owned a car that would have gone well past 250K had it not been for an accident, you could imagine I would continue buying cars from that company. And I don't think these cars lasted that long because the bolts were tightened better.
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crazy horse said
Does this company own any other theme/ amusement parks?
According to News Plus Notes, "Parques Reunidos is really quickly becoming (or is) a heavyweight in the industry. They're the ones that acquired Palace Entertainment this past year. They have all the Boomers FECs, the two California Raging Waters water parks, several other water parks in the U.S., 10+ zoos and aquariums, and many European parks like: Parque De Atracciones, Bobbejaanland, Mirabilandia, Parque Warner Madid, the insane BonBonLand (home of the "Dog Fart" coaster), and also recently purchased TusenFryd."
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I found out a little more about parques reunidos. There is a list of the parks they operate on the bottom of there web site(It's in spanish though). http://www.parquesreunidos.com/ They are also the company that is operating warner bros mandrid.. http://www.parquewarner.com/ This site is in english.
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On the parquesreunidos.com page, just click "English" in the top right corner. The entire site magically is translated into English.  There's also a really good section on "The Group" and "Our Parks". Of interest is also the news section. They've acquired three large "chains" in the past three months. One each month actually. First it was Palace Entertainment in October, then TusenFryd in November and now Kennywood Entertainment in December. That's a LOT of expansion in three months.
*** This post was edited by halltd 12/12/2007 5:29:57 PM ***
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I am not too worried about Kennywood...for now at least. However I do have big concerns over the other parks they picked up in the deal. So sad. It seems like as time goes on, more and more things are bought up by big companies. Not just in the amusement industry, but anything really. There will come a day where there are no mom and pop family owned parks left at all. They will all be owned by huge companies or closed. Mark my words...Holiday World, Knoebels...only a matter of time.
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