|
Back when he was a rep, his office was downstairs from mine (circa 1998), and I met him a few times. I was always surprised at how real he was and un-politician like. When he ran for the senate it was a no-brainer to vote for him. I just hope he keeps up that record.
|
|
|
Who wants to get some money together to buy this thing at auction and install it in my backyard?
|
|
|
|
Given my lack of deep affection for the ride, but this is an incredibly honorable thing he's done. Who knows - maybe the state could put up some cash and help fund moving the ride to the water park. Given it's not probable or entirely pratical, but who knows? Whatever happens, I've got a lot of respect for the guy now.
*** This post was edited by rOLLocOASt 12/6/2007 12:18:04 PM ***
|
|
|
Kudos to Sherrod Brown. I was surprised to see Cedar Fair put it up for sale to begin with. To me, it could be the centerpeice of a boardwlak shopping experience. It's a no brainer marketing ploy.
|
|
|
I really don't understand why they don't do the whole 'outdoor shopping mall' idea. It'd make so much money. They could leave Big Dipper there and maybe some other rides too, like Skyscraper and maybe even Villain or Headspin. I mean, what other outdoor mall could boast 'real' rides? Not just some dinky little train for Christmas or something. Seriously, it would even top MOA's rides and it could turn into something like that. It would just be sweet if there was like a Mainstreet USA-esque mall buildings that weaved where the main drags are right now. Something like the Easton mall in Columbus even. They could even add condos or sell some of the land to a developer to build condos on a plot of land that's far enough away from the coasters/rides. It would be like Coney Island meets classy shopping center. You wouldn't have to pay to get in, just pay for the rides or have an all day ride ticket, something like IB. It would just make so much money!! Plus the waterpark would be right next door! On a hot summer day, Mom could bring the kids to the waterpark and then go shopping! It would be really cool and no other mall would be able to boast attractions as big as GL's!
|
|
|
Whether or not you feel some love for the coaster, you have to appreciate what Mr. Brown is doing. I've heard people complain that he should be working on more serious matters but I don't see why he can't do something like this in addition to trying to save the world. It's refreshing to see a politician that realizes the value of a community asset and is willing to stick his neck out to do right by the people that voted him into office. There should be more like him... not because he's pushing to save the Dipper but simply because he seems to really care.
|
|
|
Oh. So if a U.S. Senator asks Cedar Fair to preserve it, that just totally means they have to do it. What a piece of crock. Like one letter is going to pursuade a giant corporation to do anything.
|
|
|
Well, I was going to say the comments here were much better than over on PointBuzz. That is until kraxl replied. I'm glad he took the effort to write the letter to Cedar Fair. It doesn't mean they'll do anything. But, it was a good start. It's more than anyone else has done.
|
|
I really don't understand why they don't do the whole 'outdoor shopping mall' idea.
Because ultimately, they are a company that runs rides and knows how to entertain people in a park, not a company that runs outdoor entertainment centers or malls. As much sense as this seems to make, it would be a completely different business model than what Cedar Fair currently does, and something completely different is then much more dangerous. I think it could happen, but just not by Cedar Fair.
|
|
|
Krax can pretty much always be counted on to cause the aggregate intelligence of a conversation to take a dive. I'm with you, it's nice to see the effort being made. Too many politicians are widely known for lining their pockets through backroom construction deals and destroying the nation from the inside out. Cedar Fair's under no obligation to listen to the guy but it's good to see someone in a position of power- and someone representing the overall population- speak up and bring attention to an issue that means something to certain people (and not just enthusiasts). Besides, what harm is this going to go? Mr. Brown writing a letter about a roller coaster isn't going to bring about more attacks in the Middle East, nor is it going to delay troops coming home from Iraq.
|
|
|
"Oh. So if a U.S. Senator asks Cedar Fair to preserve it, that just totally means they have to do it. What a piece of crock. Like one letter is going to pursuade a giant corporation to do anything." It was merely a suggestion by a local political figure. Way to take something nice involving coaster preservation, completely blowing it out of proportion, and then spinining it to be some sort of negative thing. But then again, that's pretty much your M.O. half the time you post. Ok, sorry, now back to our non-feeding-the-trolls discussion...
|
|
Ah, I can gain some votes if I do this  Its for the children. Chuck, Just kiddin
|
|
|
Oh yeah Chuck? Well 9/11 !!!!! I win. ~Rob Willi
|
|
|
geez, doesn't anyone miss Mike DeWine? Now, there was a Senator for which Ohio could sigh in resignation.
|
|
No coaster left behind. 
|
|
|
I wrote down some of my ideas over at Pointbuzz but I will say this: Not one dime of public money should be spent to preserve the ride and I say that even though it has significant ties to me as a rider and as a ride operator. If the coaster is meant for the waterpark then a company that spent $1 billion to buy the Paramount franchise should be able to come up with dollars to move it. I am so sick of private entities asking, begging or otherwise trying to gain my taxdollars for these types of purposes. (If I hear the Florida Marlins ownership continue to bash Broward or Miami Dade county officials for not coming up with money for their baseball stadium I'm going to scream.) Ohio has some real problems. They cannot afford to spend taxdollars on the Dipper.
|
|
|
I bet some coaster enthusiasts wrote to ther senator.
|
|
|
Just to clarify, I believe only one person (on both boards) has ever suggested the government put up any tax money to help save/relocate the coaster.
|
|
|
I like Sherrod Brown, but come on, the gesture isn't that big of a deal, and he sure as hell didn't write the letter himself. Everyone keeps plugging the outdoor mall thing. It was in the teens today. That's cold. Those places suck when it's cold. I never go to Legacy Village (which is 20 minutes at most from GL) this time of year. I can't be the only one.
|
|
|
I don't believe anyone is suggesting that public tax dollars be spent on preserving the Dipper. I figured this was just the Senator voicing his opinions and stressing that someone find a way to get something done.
|
|
|
Thank you Jeff for making some sense. I'm not sure everyone understands how much snow Northeast Ohio gets. Pretty much, at any time of the winter, a storm can drop 10 inches of snow. Maybe some of you want to walk around in that kind of weather, but not me. We have two inches on the ground now and I'm already complaining. Mall of America works because it's INDOORS in MINNESOTA. If it were outdoors, it wouldn't work at all.
|
|
|
Nope HeyIsn'tThatRob, I win. Constitution party, When people wake up and realize the polititians are all in the grip of the media and lobbiest, It will come around. Maybe not in my lifetime but at least I can vote without regrets. Chuck
|
|
|
I always love reading the comments attached to the internet news articles. Funnier than Jay Leno with his person on the street things. Then you get that Rob Ascough guy commenting and.... uh, well, oops. Rob, I wonder if you're the one being accused of being the staffer. I've been involved with a few senatorial/representative proclamation things (at the state, not federal level). Basically, someone in your group writes what you want the thing to say, one of their staff reviews it to make sure he's not signing something whacky, then they stamp his signature on it. It's funny how a lot of the comments in the paper say it's a corporate decision the Senator has no business being involved in, but he should worry about things like providing jobs or stopping layoffs. Aren't those pretty much corporate decisions too? But you know, after reading 40 or so comments filled with bad grammar and usage, misspelled words, and no train of logical thought, it's hard to argue with someone who says he should be more concerned with education.
|
|
|
Love how I'm being labeled a "troll" because my heart didn't soften like the rest of yours at the news of a Senator writing a letter to Cedar Fair about Big Dipper's preservation. The idea and effort is cute at best, yes. But what is this really going to do for the Big Dipper? Really. Unless Mr. Senator can pony up a personal check to save the ride, it'll all fall in the hands of a potential buyer to decided the fate of the coaster. To Cedar Fair, Big Dipper is nothing more than an 80-some year old expendable assett waiting for its final sentence. Sorry if my responses haven't been all heartwarming.
Krax can pretty much always be counted on to cause the aggregate intelligence of a conversation to take a dive.
And Rob can always be counted on to make everything personal when it comes down to someone that doesn't share any sympathetic feelings on any one particular given subject. *** This post was edited by kRaXLeRidAh 12/6/2007 5:15:51 PM ***
|
|
|
"Munch said the ride has played a major role in many people's lives, and he hopes it can continue providing fond memories for many more years." How could one ride play a major role in many people's lives? Sure, it employed a few people over the years, brought some people out to the park, but I think that line was overreaching just a little bit. The second half of the line I don't have a problem with.
|
|
|
Well I heard that Cedar Fair is ignoring Sherrod and that the government wants to save it too but, still ignoring them. Here's what cedar fair did,1. closed geauga lake 2. removing and putting up rides for auction. 3. The government wants to save the Dipper but Cedar Fair Ignores them. this seems a good or/and bad situation to save a historic ride. i don't know what to do about it. Well nothing isn't the same without big dipper so, save it people.
|
|
|
"Sorry if my responses haven't been all heartwarming." It's not a matter of being heartwarming, it's a matter of wildly blowing something out of proportion just to get your digs in at a ride that you don't care for, with fans you enjoy riling up. He's one elected official, he had a staffer write up a note to CF, and it got one little article in the Sandusky Register. Nobody in this thread ever suggested anything like "if a U.S. Senator asks Cedar Fair to preserve it, that just totally means they have to do it." I mean really if you're going to gripe about something at least do it about something pertinent.
|
|
|
Although it is sad to see a park that has lasted this long go, thats progress. Parks open and close thats just how it is. CF has to serve the best interest of their company and GL probably wasn't performing up to the standards that it was expecting it to so they chose to close it down. Bottom line, the property would make more money with them selling the water front property in the short term than it would to stay and amusement park....They could have scaled down the park but think about how long that would have taken and a lot of effort just to make a park smaller. As far of the letter it was a nice gesture, thats about it.
|
|
|
This thread isn't about CF closing Geauga Lake. It's about making any effort to save the oldest functioning coaster in the State.
|
|
|
Ugh. The government doesn't want to do anything. Where the hell are you guys getting that? A senator wrote a letter. That's all. I don't understand why Krax isn't entitled to dislike the ride and disregard its preservation. And by the way, the park is in the snow belt, big time. Not an ideal place for a year-round anything that involves anything more than a short walk from your car to somewhere indoors.
|
|
|
Isn't Legacy Village thriving? I know after it's first year, they had 94% occupancy, $225 million in sales and over 3 million visitors. The only store that I know of that left was EXPO Design Center. If I'm not mistaken, that was because of internal Home Depot issues, not the shopping complex. The completely outdoor "mall" which is located in an area much more prone to heavy snowfall than Geauga Lake has been open for over four years now and is going strong. How are First & Main (in Hudson) and Crocker Park (in Westlake) doing? We all know that Easton Town Center is wildly successful even though they're further South.
|
|
|
Outdoor malls do just fine in northern climates. Prime Outlets only do outdoor mall settings throughout the U.S. and many of them are in winter climate states including Illinois and Wisconsin. Aurora Ohio is no exception.
|
|
|
Another example is Navy Pier in Chicago. They have amusement park rides , shopping, dining, etc. Some of you need to stop thinking that this idea of a shopping and entertainment idea on Geauga Lake is far fetched. It's very feasible and other locations have proven this.
|
|
|
Here is what is NOT feasible about an outdoor shopping location at the Lake: Access. How many outdoor shopping malls (outlets) are you aware of that are not built right next door to a major interstate? Or, at least a road system with heavy traffic? I can name one: Aurora Farms. And, let's see how Aurora Farms is doing after a couple of years without their neighbors.
|
|
|
"This thread isn't about CF closing Geauga Lake. It's about making any effort to save the oldest functioning coaster in the State." Good Lord, I never thought of this, but that makes the Little Dipper at Memphis Kiddie Park the oldest coaster in the state, followed by CP's Blue Streak and Cedar Creek Mine Ride. Ouch. Tom
|
|
|
Well, Screechin' Eagle is SBNO, but as far as operating coasters go, it would be LD. That's disturbing. Nice job preserving our state history. In the words of Chrissie Hynde, way to go O-hi-o.
|
|
|
I'm sure Cedar Fair has a plan. They just aren't sharing it with us. I was just thinking that it will likely take some action from the local or state government to save the ride. CF knows this and won't do anything to jeopardize their business. Now, if Ensign Smith is correct, I'm thinking maybe they'd like the oldest coaster in the state to be at Cedar Point. Maybe they're going to try and 'bump off' the older rides.
|
|
|
Krax is certainly entitled to his opinion but people are just as entitled to call out his pattern, which I'm glad isn't obvious only to me. I couldn't care less about him being anti-preservation or anti-Dipper but some of his comments are blatant attempts to troll the site and annoy people. Matt and I are merely calling him on that. My motives for posting can be put into question (asshattery, anyone?) but I can't call out someone when I feel their motivation for posting us suspect? I don't get this whole "it snows in Cleveland" crap. It snows in a lot of places throughout the country, yet people don't lock themselves inside their houses from December to March. What's the difference between walking from store to store in an outdoor mall and walking two miles from your parking space to the mega mall in the heart of the holiday season? How is the potential for cold weather and snow going to kill the concept's chances of thriving? Ever been to New York City around the holidays? People spend hours and hours walking around with snow, rain and winds howling between the skyscrapers making conditions less than ideal. Why don't they care? Because they're having a good time.
|
|
|
Legacy Village has at least six open spaces not including the second floor space in the middle. The place is a ghost town during the week except for the four main restaurants. I'm not imagining this, I go frequently. Church, er, the Apple store is there. Geauga Lake does suck to get to. It's out of the way unless you live in Solon or points east. These lifestyle places tend to be more destination oriented and in the middle of a larger population. GL is not. It takes me ten minutes to get there from work, and that's in Solon. I can actually get to Legacy faster.
|
|
|
"Well, Screechin' Eagle is SBNO, but as far as operating coasters go, it would be LD. That's disturbing." LOL, if you want to go that route then head to Chippewa Lake. That park closed in 1978 but their "Big Dipper" built in 1925 is still standing. It's pretty much part of the forest now but it's still there! Tom
|
|
|
I thought the remnants of Chippewa Lake were torn down last year? If not, I gotta get me on a trespass...er, reconnaissance mission.
|
|
|
Every good republican knows that Mike Dewine would have already saved the Big Dipper by now.
|
|
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_effect_snow For most of my life, I lived on the western side of the state where lake effect snow doesn't really exist. Then, I came to college in Akron, which is not really even considered in the snowbelt. The first thing I noticed about winter is that it seems to snow every day from December to March. Some days it will drop 2 inches, others it may drop 10 inches. Aurora is seriously in the snowbelt, and it may be possible for 15+ inches of snow to fall with a lake effect storm within a matter of hours. You're right Rob, it does snow in other parts of the country, but in very few places can such amounts of snow fall in such short amounts of time, and with very little warning. Lake effect snow warnings sometimes come about within 3 hours of the snow beginning to fall. At least most places in the country have the luxury of a couple days of notice before the storm hits. All that said, what use is a shopping center themed around an amusement ride - and the centerpiece attraction can only be open 3-4 months a year?
|
|
|
I don't think the roller coaster would be centerpiece attraction as much as it would be one component of the project. I understand lake effect snow and what it means to the northeast Ohio/northwest Pennsylvania region but I still don't see it preventing people from patronizing the place as a shopping center. It's not like lake effect snow keeps people from going to Home Depot and Wal-Mart.
|
|
|
Former ACE president Carole Sanderson is proposing the building of a strip mall around the Big Dipper and sounds like a cool idea. However, if it becomes a reality, I think it would decline in popularity after just a few months of operation. It could probably take off if this was somewhere down south, but not in Northeast Ohio. The Eastwood Mall attempted to operate amusement rides at the defunct indoor Pocket Change Park. At best, Big Dipper would be much better off getting adopted by an amusement park. It would be fantastic if the new Hard Rock theme park at Myrtle Beach purchased the Big Dipper.
|
|
|
Name it "Classic Rocker" or something and give it a makeover with a sweet paint job on the trains, that would be awesome.
|
|
|
So let's say the Big Dipper is saved and whatever is built around it is built. I don't see what the big deal is with it running only 3-4 months out of the year. You're only going to employ a dozen at most employees to run and maintain the coaster- all you would need is a little cash cow store, even a Circle K gas station, to bring in the extra dough needed in the winter months. Making the Dipper into a local attraction, like a mini-golf course complex would be easy to do, and compliment the existing businesses across the street.
|
|
|
think roadkill is on the right track here. It doesn't necessarily have to take that much to turn a stand alone coaster into a profitable attraction. Instead of spending so much energy trying to prove why something like this *can't* work, maybe we should try to figure out how it *can*. I think an enterprising FEC ought to take the opportunity to invest in some of the land around BD, and build a mini-park to fit the structure. Just capturing the clueless people who come to GL expecting the park to still be there could turn the bottom line from red to black. Plus such a company could capitalize on the name. Although Cedar Fair owns the name "Geauga Lake" as a park name, it doesn't own the name to the lake. I imagine something like "Super Fun Time at Geauga Lake" might pass muster. Such an FEC could tie directly into some upscale shopping/entertainment district on the site.
|
|
|
Jeff said: "Everyone keeps plugging the outdoor mall thing. It was in the teens today. That's cold. Those places suck when it's cold. I never go to Legacy Village (which is 20 minutes at most from GL) this time of year. I can't be the only one." I don't know Jeff! I personally agree with you, but just a year ago in August "The Greene" opened in Beavercreek, OH, (Gonches stomping grounds). That place is challenging to get a parking spot in no matter what time of the year you go. Granted, it's Christmastime right now, but it's still 23 degrees, (currently), and that place is filled to capacity. I know there's not a lot of love for the BD most times, but I love it, and hope it does stick around long enough for my kids to both ride it.
|
|
|
Geauga Lake is a pending trademark owned by Cedar Fair for the purpose of retail. Look it up. Southern Ohio and the Northeast Ohio snow belt is radically different in terms of weather. Ask Gonch, who complains the snow is inadequate there.
|
|
|
I'm too lazy to do so, but I'll take your word for it. I have some extra snow Gonch can come and take...
|
|
|
Can I have some of the snow please? I miss it. There better still be some left in Ohio in two weeks. Pending usually means it's not approved yet, right? It's also the name of a body of water. So, I highly doubt someone couldn't name a retail complex "The Shoppes at Geauga Lake". I have a feeling the closing of the park might have some implication on Cedar Fair's rights to the name as well.
|
|
|
Keep rubbing it in, Tim. I'd rather be a frozen Midwesterner than a Caribbean amphibian.
|
|
|
No, honestly - I miss the snow and cold. That's why I'm looking forward to my trip back in a couple weeks. When you have the same weather 365 days a year, it gets boring. Plus, it's very hard to get in the Christmas spirit when it's 88 and sunny - it's just not the same.
|
|
|
So it would be a bad idea to include the coaster in some sort of retail/entertainment venue, because it would only run 3-4 months out of the year? This is as opposed to the 3-4 months out of the year it ran for the past 80 years. Ummm, OK.
|
|
|
When your business isn't running an amusement ride, yeah. You can figure that out, right?
|
|
|
And what if running an amusement ride becomes part of your business, factoring into the decision the fact that it will only run 3-4 months out of the year?
|
|
|
OK time to open a can of worms. Could any type of business that decides to open on the same location, contract with Cedar Fair for the upkeep and operation of the coaster. They have the people, and they already know how the ride is to maintain and operate. I know a lot of that would come down to cost (how much Cedar Fair would want) versus income, but if done correctly I don't see a problem with it. PS
It would be nice if these new stories had a link to the new posts, like the forum does. Or even use the forum for discussion like Point Buzz does.
*** This post was edited by Morté615 12/11/2007 6:01:57 PM ***
|
|
|
Shoppes at Big Dipper including food court with a giant taco stand. Villian and RWB stay along with the merry-go-round and mini golf.
|
|